Faramir Fiction Archive

Hi December!

Thanks for your long, lovely comment! Well, of course I can’t answer some things without going into what’ll happen later, but… yes, you’ll see the parallel more clearly later, the plot isn’t fully ripe yet. As for Aragorn leaving them alone, he does it with no second thoughts at all. Of course it doesn’t enter his head for a moment that the situation could be ambiguous in any way. It just would seem overprotective of him to be with his wife all the time, like she’s too shy to be left on her own or something. Also, he knows that before the royal couple the Steward would remain quite formal, while if he leaves them both alone he trusts Arwen to find the way to make him at ease. As a high-born Elf, she’s got enough dignity to hold anyone in awe should the need arise, and also enough charm to make anyone feel comfortable if she wishes to. I can also hint that Aragorn has lived alone for very many years and has acquired habits of great independence. He doesn’t need to be with her all day, indeed he would quickly find that stifling. And we can also suppose that on the morning in question he has other matters to attend to.
As for the settings, I don’t think the encounter is really intimate; the Queen must have a place in her own quarters to receive visitors outside the formal audiences of the throne room, and that’s where she speaks with Faramir. It’s definitely not like inviting him into her bedroom or her bathroom, as Aragorn has done (which means that so far Aragorn has been far less formal to Faramir than Arwen). I should say that a meeting on a terrace or a garden should be far more romantic and ambiguous. Here in the room you can imagine there are maids around, though I haven’t talked of them.

I’d say more about all this, but I must keep my secrets… Still, I’m glad you think Faramir generous, I thought maybe I had made him a bit too jealous, but apparently not :). Yes, the bath scene was funny because of the two of them being so out of tune with one another… As for what will happen later, argh, I’ll say like you, I can’t go into it yet… how frustrating… but then I’m so happy to know you’re wondering, it’ll spur me to write on…

Now about AU, you do have a point. I for one had completely forgotten Éowyn. You know, I kept having this impression that there was something AU I couldn’t quite remember… that’s it, and I’ll have to modify the notes. Well, Éowyn’s fate doesn’t really matter in this story. She probably died after waking up and remembering that Aragorn didn’t love her. Aragorn said in the book that this could happen, unless somebody brought her healing that he could not. Faramir, being smitten by Aragorn (however unconsciously), wasn’t there to save her; he probably never even got to see her, for she died without leaving her bed again.

Hope I’ve answered some of your questions… the others will be answered soon enough, I hope :)

Hi December!
May I say I was secretly hoping for this feedback (but I knew you were really busy, so I didn’t ask)? Thanks, thank you!
So far my favourite is chapter 4 as well, I think. Arwen’s situation also makes me quite gleeful.
As for the last chapter, my intention was absolutely not to convey that Faramir is very lonely and sad, only that he doesn’t know what to do and the dialogue with his mother is just his particular way of talking to his own heart to try to find the right thing to do. And of course he can’t turn to anybody, because the Queen’s secret is not his own. To me it would be out of the question for Faramir to speak of it to anyone. Even if it was someone trustworthy like Gandalf, that’s not the point. The secret is not his. Aside from that, who could he turn to? The obvious option if he had a problem would be Aragorn, but here it is impossible. Gandalf is far away, Boromir is dead, who else is there with enough wisdom and honour to be trusted with such a secret? Don’t forget he only has a day to decide.
But I never saw that situation as showing a lonely Faramir, to me he deals with it alone because it’s the right thing to do and because he is strong enough to. He’s not panicking or having a nervous breakdown or anything, he’s just in a big dilemma, as he’s been before (with Frodo and the Ring, particularly). If anything, I’d say that to me his not talking to anyone of his love for Aragorn would speak more of his solitude.
That’s not to say I disqualify your point of view or anything, on the contrary, it’s always refreshing to have differents views on a given scene.
Thanks for the song, it’s beautiful though I couldn’t find the lyrics…
And thanks for the compliment, one of the goals of chapter 5 was to show how difficult Faramir’s dilemma was and that he could make any decision from there…

Hi Bartemia,

Your English is good! Do you want to elaborate? Why do you think they shouldn’t be doing what they are doing?
On the one hand, her demand certainly wasn’t fair, and Faramir knew it. On the other, Arwen wasn’t happy and neither was Faramir and now they both seem happier – isn’t that good? Even Aragorn is glad that Arwen looks more cheerful of late. Now, what happens once their secret is discovered is another matter… I do not want to go into what will happen later, but I will say that this is the central chapter of the story, so the next ones will take it toward its conclusion… whichever that may be.

Anyway, thank you so much for your comment and your interest, I didn’t know you were reading this story!

Hi again Bartemia!

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain how you feel about the story, even in a language that’s not your primary tongue. I’m going to try to answer your questions :).

There are many things in this story that are left to the interpretation of each reader, especially concerning feelings. So all I can do is give you my own vision, but then each reader may perceive things in her/his own way. So.

Faramir loves Arwen, and he loves Aragorn, but that doesn’t mean that he loves both of them equally or in the same way. I personally think he is in love with Aragorn and not with Arwen, though he loves her in a tender, caring sort of way. Her feelings are also left ambiguous. Is she just grateful for what Faramir gives her, or is she in love with him? I personally think she isn’t. Her love is rather born of gratitude and happiness.

Aragorn loves Arwen very deeply, and she knows it, but he can’t make her happy. The reasons are only hinted: he’s very independent and she needs much more affection and attention than he can give her. To make matters worse, he isn’t really aware of her frustration. What isn’t mentioned, but I think is a great part of the problem, is that Aragorn doesn’t satisfy Arwen sexually. So she loves him and gives everything for him, and then it turns out life with him is not what she expected.

Think that people and especially women were supposed to be virgins when they married, so she had no knowledge of Aragorn’s talent in bed or lack thereof. He could be a man easily satisfied and who’s not aware of what his wife needs. Also, I think his is a very pure kind of love, and sex is only necessary to produce an heir, but Arwen is a person quite drawn to the carnal aspects of life. In fact she might have fallen in love with a mortal precisely because of this, because unconsciously she would be drawn to his condition much more material and less ethereal than that of Elves. I mean, I don’t think Elves made love that often, given the very few children they had… and the fact that they loved things like poetry and songs and dreaming much more than, for instance, food…

So I think Arwen was mostly extremely frustrated sexually and Faramir is very good at curing that.

And as for Arwen behaving as if she was sixteen: yes, I think that’s exactly what she does! Even Faramir hints that he thinks so, too. But I always was of the opinion that she wasn’t very intelligent, nor very consistent with her own choices. After all, when Aragorn grew old, she regretted forsaking her immortality. How mature is that? On the other hand, how many people, when they make a mistake as big as the one she makes in this story through choosing Aragorn, would be ready to live with the consequences? The story hints she was raised up like a pampered child and she’s not used to get frustrated. Don’t forget, also, that this story is bookverse and in the book Aragorn never tells her to go to Valinor, he doesn’t try to talk her out of her choice so I don’t think she ever takes much time to think about it.

As for Faramir thinking that nobody will know if he becomes Arwen’s lover, well, he’s lived under both Mordor and Denethor’s vigilance for so long, so I expect he knows everything about how to keep a secret, especially since Aragorn is not nearly as distrustful as Denethor was. You know the saying, “the wronged spouse is always the last to know”. I think he believes, with some reason, that they will be able to keep it a secret. And in fact, they only get caught because, first, Arwen is careless (she goes to his chambers without warning him or arranging a meeting) and then they have the incredible bad luck of an orc attack in time of peace.

And about his decision… well, of course you can see things differently, but I think the reasons why he takes this course are pretty clear in chapter 5: he pities Arwen, and he fears leaving her alone and what she might do, and he fears to cause the King pain. Because, even if Aragorn didn’t blame Faramir for his being in love with the King, still if that were to be known it would be a scandal, public dishonour for Faramir, so Aragorn would have to get rid of the Steward (otherwise people might think that they’re lovers…) and so on. This story is set in a Gondor where homosexuality is just not accepted by society at large. And especially in leaders. You might imagine there are particularly conservative sectors who would use that to gain power, or people who would use this information about Faramir to crush his political career and weaken the King’s power.

I also think there’s some unconscious part of Faramir that just isn’t ready to face the King and discover that Elessar doesn’t love him or is disgusted by him. In a way, sleeping with the Queen is the surest way of dispelling suspicions about his love for the King. But these thoughts Faramir would never admit to himself :).

Well, I hope this may help you to better understand some aspects of the story. Still, there’s no accounting for opinions, so maybe the characters’ behaviour in this fic just doesn’t work for you.

In any event, don’t hesitate to comment and don’t worry about my feeling insulted :), it’s always interesting to get different views about the story. So thanks again for sharing your thoughts on it!

Just one little secret about Faramir’s decision. He was unable to choose a course of action before the sunset, and so went to meet Arwen without any clear plan, and then, when he stood facing her, he just decided on the spot, following his instinct, or his heart, or whatever one may call it. That, at least, is how I imagine his decision. Does that help?

Hi again! Don’t worry about being annoying, it’s true your last comment was more difficult to understand than the previous ones, but I suppose it’s because it was late or something :). I’m very glad to see you’re so interested in the story and so curious about what will happen next.

I think most people, in Faramir’s place, would take the easy course: to have nothing to do with adultery, or treason, or lies, and to let the King and the Queen sort out their problems on their own. But Faramir, in my opinion, would think such an attitude cowardly. He wants to do what he thinks is better, even if it is against the law, against his vows, even if it means lying. Don’t forget he allowed Frodo to take the Ring to Mordor, against his father’s will and his orders as a soldier. When something matters to him, he commits himself. And if he chooses to satisfy Arwen, it’s because he thinks it’s the best thing to do, even if it’s dangerous or morally questionable. And to choose the other way just because it’s moral would seem an act of cowardice, like the nazi officers who committed atrocities not because they agreed with it but because “we had orders”.
So I think he can meet his own eyes in the mirror because he thinks he’s chosen what seemed the less of two evils, even if there’s no right path here.

And once he chooses to become Arwen’s lover, he carries out the job thouroughly. It would be hypocritical to agree to satisfy her and then be distant or reluctant or whatever. In his mind, he mustn’t do it – or else he must do it well.

Don’t hesitate to keep commenting! I’d particularly love to know how you imagine the story to evolve in the next chapter… What do you think will happen?

Mmmm… interesting, though of course I can’t say if you’re right or not without uncovering the plot. Anyway I hope you will soon know what happens, next chapter is almost finished.

Still, there’s one fact to take into account: Húrin doesn’t necessarily know about the Orc invasion and Legolas’ visit (as a matter of fact, he doesn’t know). He’s only been ordered to look for the Steward urgently.

Also, I think your guesses about Húrin would be quite in character for him, but on the other hand, he’s been Faramir’s friend for so long. How could that affect his reaction?

And another interesting question: how will Faramir and Arwen react to this exceedingly dangerous situation, and to Húrin’s possible threat?

Wow, it’s so very interesting to have your point of view on all this! And you’re not stupid, so don’t say that! It’s very difficult to guess how characters will react in a story written by someone else, especially if so far you find their reactions strange already…

Aaaargh, I can’t say if you’re right or not… I really must finish that chapter!

As for Faramir, I think if he really wanted the lies to end, he would have stopped things long ago. I really can’t imagine him being pleased, though maybe relieved in some small measure. But I really think that for him and Arwen, getting caught is first and foremost a dangerous and complicated situation. Having to face Aragorn about the affair with Arwen would be painful for Faramir in any case, for he doesn’t want the King to suffer. As for Arwen’s reaction, you’re right to think that it is the most unpredictable of all… at least for me :).

Well, with all the interest you have shown in this story I really think I ought to stop commenting and go back to work on the next chapter. But of course if you still have questions, I’ll be only too happy to answer them. And I am really most grateful for your comments, this chapter took a lot of work and I didn’t intend to continue with the story for some time, but now you’re making me feel like it was really worth the effort and I should keep working on it! So thanks a lot!

By the way, if you have time and you feel like it, I’d love to have your feedback on the sexual part of the chapter (it’s the first time I publish a scene with graphic sex). But don’t feel obliged, it’s really only if you have time and you’d like to give your opinion on it. There’s the option of sending a private message through the admins if you don’t like to publish it here.

Anyway, thanks a lot for your detailed analysis of the characters and the situation!

Hi Bartemia,

Feedback is giving your opinion on the positive and/or negative points of something. But I suppose I didn’t know myself what kind of information I was expecting when I asked you about this scene, so it’s normal you shouldn’t know exactly what to say. I’ve thought a bit about it and I think what I wanted to know is whether the scene looks realistic, both in the sexual sense (rythm and everything) and in the human sense (if the characters are credible). And I’d also be interested to know what effect it produces, if the reader finds their lovemaking beautiful, or scandalising, or very hot, or romantic, or whatever. If I understand you correctly, there’s a bit of everything?

On the other hand, when you don’t ask specific questions you have a better chance of getting original and unexpected feedback, which is great :).

You said that you didn’t understand their love, but my description made it easier. What is it that you don’t understand? Is it the fact that Faramir accepts to become her lover, the fact that he truly desires her, or the fact they love each other in some way? And the description – do you mean the sexual scene or the explanations I gave you in the comments above?

And what do you mean by “maybe I should throw this remembering/shadow of Aragorn out of my head, but how?” That intrigued me so much :).

As I said before, don’t worry about your feedback being “convenient” or good, all sorts of feedback are interesting and I’m so happy to discuss the story with you! So once again, great thanks!

Hi again!

Thanks for explaining! Yes, it’s clearer to me now. I’m glad that you like the tenderness between them and that it helps you understand why they have feelings for each other. I mean, Faramir would have feelings for just about anyone, he always sees the good side of people and grieves for their sorrows… And he’s so good at comforting and understanding that it’s only normal Arwen should have feelings for him.
As for desire, well… after all Arwen is the most beautiful creature ever since Lúthien :) and once Faramir’s heart is touched, how can his body remain indifferent?
And as for your feelings for Aragorn… strangely, the fic doesn’t have that effect on me. I don’t really think about Aragorn because he is not aware of the situation; if he was, things would change of course… Also, I don’t like Aragorn quite as much as Faramir.
Though I don’t like Arwen either and I must say, it’s a pleasure to work with her on this fic :).

I hope to get next chapter ready soon, it’s taking more work than I thought so it may be delayed a little.

Hi Bartemia, nice to hear from you again!
“A very nice excuse”, do you think then it was not true? What do you mean when you said he lied to himself? What’s sad?
Please, please elaborate :).
As for updates, I am already working on the following chapter, but it is proving particularly tricky. I’m afraid it is already planned, but still I’d like to know exactly what you are asking for. What kind of choice? And what do you mean, too quick and shallow?

Anyway, I’m really happy that you are still interested in the story, grateful for your commenting, and very pleased with your compliments :). Thanks, thanks, thanks!

Hi December!

Well, I must say I didn’t understand all the nuances of your comment, which is frustrating because what you say is so interesting in many ways… What do you mean by “it cracked me up how absurd the discovery of their secret was” and “if it weren’t for the nosy arrogant fools who just must find out”?
Same about the “polarising” and “sticky” story, I’m not sure I understand exactly what you mean. I understand you wanted to give up the reading or tell yourself it wasn’t credible and yet something made you keep reading: is that correct?
If so, that’s a great compliment: being able to keep a reader reading against their will is a great feat :) and by the tone of your comment (kind of reluctant and not happy) it looks like I did exactly that. Well, it would be easy to gain readers by writing exactly what they want to read, but… not very interesting, right?
I’m impressed both by the fact that it took you so much time to work up the courage to keep reading, and by the fact you finally did (and will continue, I’m sure). That really shows how deeply this story got to you!
I love your comparison of Arwen to a cat, that really describes this Arwen in a nutshell. Still, I believe Faramir would never have given in solely to her charm or her willpower – I mean, if he can resist the ring… – it’s the good he sees in her and the pity he has for her and, don’t forget, the fact he has Aragorn’s and Gondor’s best interests at heart… I hope that is some consolation.
And maybe you’ll need to read the rest of the story, but at the end of it I realized that this wasn’t only about a hard choice for Faramir, but for all of them… and even if Arwen’s inner debate is not shown in the story, we should not underestimate it. She is quite selfish, but also quite sensitive, and loving, and she even has some conscience, I think…
On the other hand, Faramir, while quite noble at heart, is not really the “moral” sort of character that always follows the rules. He’s not at all afraid of going against the rules and when he decides to do something, he doesn’t care that much about what others might think…
Again, thanks for this very sincere comment: “the praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards”, and in a way, it is even more flattering because it is not given gladly, but given all the same. “You make it so damn believable”, that compliment I will remember for quite some time, I think. It really means the world.
And now I must say I read your last chapter of Hungry Eyes and a Blade of Steel and I am looking forward to the next one :). In the meantime, have a very good end of year and start of new one!

Hi December!

Thanks for explaining your comment further (now it is clear to me what you meant) and no, I didn´t take it as unkind, only kind of unhappy, which as I said makes it even more interesting in a way. You don´t discourage me, I never expected all the readers to be happy with this story so if it is at least believable, that is the very best I could expect. Besides, I know you mean well :)
And yes, I had not thought about the awkwardness and laughability of the situation they land themselves in, but I see your point. On the other hand, if anyone thought Faramir was a poor lonely bachelor, it would kind of lift up his reputation, wouldn´t it? Anyway.
Your story. I have to admit that the last chapter kind of unsettled me, so I was waiting for the next one to comment. But now I guess your curiosity is aroused, so I´ll try to give you a full analysis as soon as I can (which might well be next year, alas!).
In the meanwhile, thanks again for your explanations and let me know as soon as you keep reading the story! Hugs,